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 HT07 Turbo + 320cc injectors + Adaptronic (currently 2033 views) |
| fxdlidon |
| Posted on: Thursday, March 5th, 2009, 8:41:17pm |
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Back in the performance turbo thread I mentioned that I'd manage to get an HT07 - 4B and a set of 320cc injectors from yahoo.japan. Now here's the rest of the story...
The plan was fairly simple. Fit the injectors, let the Adaptrinic get the fuelling right up to about 1.2 bar (as much steady boost as the standard turbo will give) then bolt on the new trurbo, turn up the boost and see what happens (tha HT07 should be good for at least a steady 1.4 bar maybe more) |
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| fxdlidon |
Posted on: Thursday, March 5th, 2009, 8:42:09pm
 Attachment: az1_fuel_rail.jpg - 40.53 KB (1709 views) |
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| I wont bore you with the trials and tribulations of fitting new injectors on an AZ-1 - the inlet manifold is very different to the cappo's. I cant even get a pic of them but this pic shows where the end of the fuel rail is which will give you some idea... |
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| fxdlidon |
| Posted on: Thursday, March 5th, 2009, 8:44:24pm |
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I thought setting them up would be easy - injectors are %30 bigger, reduce the fuel map by %30. OH NO! life just isn't that simple!
Finally got the engine started with a %10 reduction then had to spend 1/2hour or so in Warvi fiddling with the fuel in individual cells till I could get a stedy idle, then a quick run in 'rapid learning', to get the map starting to look sensible, then on to 'slow converge' to get it right.
This was all going very well until I fitted a new 3bar map sensor to cope with the planned increase in boost - bl**dy thing died the minute I hit 1bar and, I then discoverd (100 miles from home) that the Adaptronic wont run without a working map sensor  Fortunately I still had the old one with me and was able to put that back on and get home 
So my run that day, which was going to get the fuelling set up right, didn't happen - had to wait till the trip to Goodwood, last weekend with a new 2.5bar map sensor, before I got the fueling close enough to try the new turbo. |
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| fxdlidon |
Posted on: Thursday, March 5th, 2009, 8:50:13pm
Attachment: az1_turbo_out.jpg - 49.81 KB (1435 views) |
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| So today - Old turbo out! |
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| fxdlidon |
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Here's a pic of the old and new together - HT07 on the left. The inlet is 35mm dia as opposed to 29mm standard. I've opened up the end of the inlet pipe to match, but ideally it could do with the inlet casting bored out all the way to 35mm to take full advantage of the larger bore of the turbo.
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| fxdlidon |
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| And another showing the exhaust side. |
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| fxdlidon |
Posted on: Thursday, March 5th, 2009, 8:54:42pm
Attachment: az1_hto7_1.jpg - 46.16 KB (1705 views) |
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And now...
New turbo in (actually for the 2nd time, I dropped a washer down the outlet the first time and had to take it off again to get it out)
On the AZ-1 the turbo is a straight replacement, apart from having to reshape the water pipes. On the cappo however you would need a spacer on the inlet pipe to clear the wastegate actuator. Have a look here - http://66.163.168.225/babelfis......co.jp%2Fht07_1.html |
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| fxdlidon |
| Posted on: Thursday, March 5th, 2009, 8:55:20pm |
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More tomorrow after I finish bolting all the bits back on including, hopefully, some first driving impressions
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| Chris S |
Posted on: Friday, March 6th, 2009, 8:28:58am
Attachment: img_3566_small.jpg - 95.00 KB (1684 views) |
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Nice work. I look forward to hearing how it drives.
Interesting to see the turbo you took off. It does have the VZ25 model number, and you can see that the
exhaust turbine is much larger than the standard cappo VZ24. It's like your old turbo has the exhaust side of the suzuki sport turbo, with the compressor side of the standard turbo.
Here's a pic. of the outlet of my VZ24: |
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| fxdlidon |
| Posted on: Friday, March 6th, 2009, 9:51:53am |
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It's the standard AZ-1 turbo - as Ed mentioned back in the performance turbo thread "not all VZ25's are the Suzuki Sport one", if you're buying one make sure you check the whole part number. This one has an AR of 7, the same as the VZ24 on the cappo.
I haven't got any figures to prove this but it feels like the boost comes in a bit later than the cappo but keeps going a bit longer. That's just my driving impression anyway. |
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| Chris S |
| Posted on: Friday, March 6th, 2009, 11:21:33am |
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| fxdlidon |
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All back together, and fired up first time with no leaks 
It took most of the day as I couldn't get the banjo bolt for the oil feed back into the engine. The surface it mounts to on the turbo must me at a slightly different angle, or in a slightly different position, and I think I had the turbo in and out about 8 times slightly changing the shape of the pipe until eventually I got it to fit  |
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Last modified Friday, March 6th, 2009, 7:19:23pm by fxdlidon |
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| fxdlidon |
| Posted on: Friday, March 6th, 2009, 7:27:25pm |
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...and the first drive - that was a disaster! The engine kept cutting out every 20 yards or so, was only when I got it back and had a good look I realised I hadn't re-fitted the knock sensor and it was bouncing along the road cutting the engine every time it bounced.
2nd run was much better. Boost really starts building at about 3500 then just keeps on going finally tailing off at about 8500. Once I've set up the duty cycles for the new turbo to get a nice boost curve this is going to be very quick It easily hit the 1.25bar limit I've currently got set. |
Last modified Friday, March 6th, 2009, 7:27:52pm by fxdlidon |
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| Andy |
| Posted on: Friday, March 6th, 2009, 7:53:18pm |
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Official C.O.C Contributor
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Nice one Don  |
Drop me a PM if you would like to be added to the ClubCappo Member Map. More details can be found here.
We now have an official Facebook group as well as a page! See here |
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| fxdlidon |
| Posted on: Saturday, March 7th, 2009, 5:43:06pm |
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and one last thing that I forgot. The bottom lug on the impeller side of the turbo needs grinding back about 2.5mm. If you dont do this the oil filter will be very stiff to take out and impossible to re-fit! ...did an oil and filter change today.
Still I must be getting good at taking off and re-fitting AZ-1 turbo's. Got it out, the lug ground back. and the whole lot back and running in 2 hours today
No pics as I was over at my mates shop and didn't have my camera with me. I'll take one next time it's off.(not fer a while hopefully)
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Last modified Saturday, March 7th, 2009, 5:48:06pm by fxdlidon |
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| fxdlidon |
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Used the quiet sunday morning roads to do the tedious job of setting up the duty cycles for the boost control, was worth it though!
Graph shows what I was getting with the standard turbo and what I'm getting now. I'm fairly sure the HT07 would go higher but my map sensor runs out at 2.5 bar (250kPa) so I'm not going to risk it. And anyway the car is quite fast enough as it is |
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| fxdlidon |
Posted on: Monday, March 9th, 2009, 11:23:06am
Attachment: hto7_lug.jpg - 15.33 KB (1613 views) |
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| The bit that needs grinding back is the section of the lug under the red line |
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| Ricou |
| Posted on: Monday, March 9th, 2009, 12:48:44pm |
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| Thanks for sharing all this stuff fxdlidon ! |
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| grant4561 |
| Posted on: Wednesday, March 11th, 2009, 3:37:08am |
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| Excellant...............now to find a HT07. |
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| fxdlidon |
Posted on: Thursday, April 30th, 2009, 8:30:31pm
Attachment: new_az1_air_inlet.jpg - 49.21 KB (1517 views) |
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Earlier on in this thread I said about the inlet to the turbo being constricted. This has been bothering me ever since I fitted it so I made up this...
It's a 35mm manifold stub to fit the turbo inlet.
edit: oops wrong pic - this is the one of it all fitted |
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Last modified Thursday, April 30th, 2009, 8:32:15pm by fxdlidon |
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| fxdlidon |
Posted on: Thursday, April 30th, 2009, 8:35:03pm
Attachment: new_turbo_inlet.jpg - 33.88 KB (1513 views) |
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| Here's the one of the stub manifold |
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| fxdlidon |
Posted on: Thursday, April 30th, 2009, 8:36:03pm
Attachment: old_az1_air_inlet.jpg - 43.12 KB (1512 views) |
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| ...and her's how it all used to look |
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| fxdlidon |
| Posted on: Thursday, April 30th, 2009, 8:43:58pm |
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I'm surprised at the difference it's made. Loads more low down torque and I'm going to have to redo all the duty cycles on the boost control - it keeps overboosting at anything over 3/4 throttle above 4500rpm.
Mind you it's not surprising, if I've got my maths right, I make the increase in surface area from 29mm to 35mm is about %45 - so loads more air getting in |
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| Chris S |
| Posted on: Friday, May 1st, 2009, 5:53:16pm |
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Looks good Don.
I was planning on doing something similar, but had planned to modify an old ram-pipe from
a webber or SU carb. In my case though it's more about removing the rather sharp 90 deg. bend in the standard intake. I need to strip the air-con out so that the turbo can be fed almost directly from a new airbox (plan to get one off a bigger engined car from the breakers yard). I also need the AC out as my new intercooler will be dropped in where the AC heat exchanger currently lives.
How did you fab, the new inlet?
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| fxdlidon |
| Posted on: Friday, May 1st, 2009, 6:25:31pm |
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New inlet was made from a piece of 12mm alloy plate and a piece of 38mm pipe joiner. Cut a 38mm hole in the plate with a cheap wood hole cutter, lots of oil to lube the cutting and cool it down when the oil starts boiling (cutter is not a lot of good anymore - seems to have lost 1/2 it's teeth!) cut the plate to size then metal-epoxyed the pipe into it. The epoxy is good for 150 deg C so I'm hoping it doesn't get any hotter than that.
My air-con top mount was in the way so I needed to cut it down - I'll need to reinforce it at some point.
Getting an efficiant air feed into the turbo has made a lot more difference than I expected - well worth doing! |
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| grant4561 |
| Posted on: Monday, May 4th, 2009, 12:22:14am |
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Great work Don but I dont know about the metal-epoxy?
I think I would weld it to be safe. |
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| fxdlidon |
| Posted on: Tuesday, May 5th, 2009, 9:15:54pm |
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Quoted from grant4561, posted Monday, May 4th, 2009, 12:22:14am at here |
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...but I dont know about the metal-epoxy?
I think I would weld it to be safe.
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I agree but unfortunately I don't have the kit to weld aluminium But now I know how well it works I'm working on a mk2 that I can get a mate to cnc then weld properly - just need to do some precise drawings. |
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| mdh |
| Posted on: Tuesday, August 4th, 2009, 6:30:59pm |
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| Couldnt you just use Lumniweld? |
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| Xpress |
| Posted on: Thursday, May 26th, 2011, 12:31:23pm |
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| how much hp reach with that turbo and injectors at 1.2bar? |
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| fxdlidon |
| Posted on: Thursday, May 26th, 2011, 2:10:33pm |
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The only run I've got, the wastegate actuator was loose and I could only get 0.85 bar!
That day - 93.6bhp engine, 78.4 at the wheels. |
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| ycming |
| Posted on: Wednesday, June 15th, 2011, 1:17:48pm |
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Hi there,
What plugs do you recommend for the Ht07 and 295cc injector?
Thanks
Ming |
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| Tiny |
| Posted on: Wednesday, June 15th, 2011, 1:27:22pm |
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I went for NGK's DCPR9EIX in mine £27 delivered from sparkplugs.co.uk
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Last modified Wednesday, June 15th, 2011, 1:28:32pm by Tiny |
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| ycming |
| Posted on: Wednesday, June 15th, 2011, 1:30:51pm |
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Quoted from Tiny, posted Wednesday, June 15th, 2011, 1:27:22pm at here |
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I went for NGK's DCPR9EIX in mine £27 delivered from sparkplugs.co.uk
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hmm is that just standard plugs ? The NGK platium ones? |
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| Tiny |
| Posted on: Wednesday, June 15th, 2011, 1:47:13pm |
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| standars are 7s these are 2 grades cooler and and are the iridiums |
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| ycming |
| Posted on: Wednesday, June 15th, 2011, 1:48:28pm |
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Quoted from Tiny, posted Wednesday, June 15th, 2011, 1:47:13pm at here |
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standars are 7s these are 2 grades cooler and and are the iridiums
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cool cool many thanks I be getting some of them ocne everythig is fitted
Ming |
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| fxdlidon |
| Posted on: Wednesday, June 15th, 2011, 3:37:10pm |
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| I used 8's rather than 9's as I was having starting issues in the cold weather with the 9's. |
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| Tiny |
| Posted on: Wednesday, June 15th, 2011, 4:50:15pm |
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| 9s and having issue starting? did you gap check them on removal? |
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| fxdlidon |
| Posted on: Wednesday, June 15th, 2011, 10:35:50pm |
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Gap was fine, but I do mean cold, -2 and lower!
Cold starting has always been a bit of a problem, it's probabley got something to do with the ecu originally being set up in OZ where they don't understand the meaning of the word cold (sorry guys)
It's always run perfectly on 8's though, even running 1.4 bar. |
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| Tiny |
| Posted on: Thursday, June 16th, 2011, 8:24:36am |
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Ah so Worth keeping the old ones on removal for use mid winter :p
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| grant4561 |
| Posted on: Friday, June 17th, 2011, 9:36:06am |
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Quoted from fxdlidon, posted Wednesday, June 15th, 2011, 10:35:50pm at here |
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Gap was fine, but I do mean cold, -2 and lower!
Cold starting has always been a bit of a problem, it's probabley got something to do with the ecu originally being set up in OZ where they don't understand the meaning of the word cold (sorry guys)
It's always run perfectly on 8's though, even running 1.4 bar.
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WTF is cold?
I have tried nine's out here and yes there is a starting problem with them and if you idle for a bit they tend to foul up. Eight's work for me. |
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Cappuccino Owners Club › Specific Discussion Boards › Adaptronic ECU › HT07 Turbo + 320cc injectors + Adaptronic (Moderators: )
