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 SHE LIVES! - kind of (currently 1190 views) |
| paolo |
| Posted on: Sunday, July 25th, 2010, 1:36:53pm |
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So with the expert help of Don (thanks mate, much appreciated) I completed my loom yesterday and installed sensors today.
So then came the nervous first attempt at starting the beast.....
On first crank she fired up and idled perfectly! I checked electrical load by turning fans on then turned on the aircon - no hunting at all, probably thanks to grant's electrical load 2 fix which I have implemented.
I was well impressed and thought that it was too good to be true.....
It was.
Problems:
1. On revving the engine nearly dies at first, then revs ok
2. The engine stalls every time I pull up to a junction
3. (BIG problem) when the turbo kicks in the engine looses all power and kind of makes a farting noise at which point I sh*t myself and lift off the accelerator.
I think one of the causes of these problems is that the ECU file that I was sent by grant was configured for an analogue TPS. I have not been able to fit it (long story) so I tried to change the setting to the stock TPS by looking at a stock ECU file.
What should I actually be doing to change the settings from analogue to stock TPS?
Also any ideas why the engine is dying when the turbo kicks in? I have a 3 bar map but it seems to be reading ok.
thanks in advance!!! |
Last modified Sunday, July 25th, 2010, 4:33:23pm by paolo |
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| brett |
| Posted on: Monday, July 26th, 2010, 2:16:25am |
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1. That sounds like a transient throttle issue. I think a number of us had this problem. If you fit an analogue tps it gets it 95% of the way there. I did make mine a little easier to drive by increasing the timing map cells in the lower revs especially around idle. If you sit there blipping the throttle between idle and 1500rpm and increase the master ign. trim you should quickly find a good figure that you can input into your timing map. Just don't drive it under boost etc with the overall timing wound up.
2. I'd say have a look at the dashpot settings under the idle tab. Try a figure of 20-30 and 2000ms and go from there. That means it would add extra idle effort for two seconds when you close the throttle.
3. Is your map sensor calibrated? What kpa is your power cut set to? Is it only under full throttle? Part throttle / less than atmospheric pressure ok? I'm not sure what would cause the farting noise. 
Btw congrats on getting it all wired up and idling / driving. Thats the hardest bit I think  |
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| grant4561 |
| Posted on: Monday, July 26th, 2010, 7:06:04am |
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Congrat's Paulo.
Have a fiddle with what Brett said above, but I will check the file I sent you anyway.
Silly me I thought you had an analouge TPS.
Press F11 and WARI will pop up a screen showing all of the inputs & outputs so you can check everthing is function correctly, like closed throttle, WOT, El1 & 2, etc.
You could also run a loge will driving which when you save it is an excell file which you can then check to see what may be causing any problems. |
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| fxdlidon |
Posted on: Monday, July 26th, 2010, 7:39:51am
 Attachment: aux_in.jpg - 62.18 KB (919 views) |
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Quoted from brett, posted Monday, July 26th, 2010, 2:16:25am at here |
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congrats on getting it all wired up and idling / driving. Thats the hardest bit I think
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here here
I think once you can get the analogue tps set up life will be much better.
till then the settings for the stock one are on the 'aux in' tab inputs 3 and 4. This is how the screen should look for WOT. |
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| paolo |
| Posted on: Monday, July 26th, 2010, 8:55:38am |
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Silly me I thought you had an analouge TPS.
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I do, but I have not been able to install it due to an annoying screw. |
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| paolo |
| Posted on: Monday, July 26th, 2010, 8:58:47am |
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This is how the screen should look for WOT.
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Ah, so I don't have those aux inputs configured for WOT at all, which would explain at least some of the issues. I remember that you mentioned on Saturday that I had to change something to get it back to stock TPS but I forgot what you said!
A lunch hour fiddle is on the cards methinks! Yes the car actually got me to work! |
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| grant4561 |
| Posted on: Monday, July 26th, 2010, 10:40:42am |
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Doesnt it feel good though |
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| paolo |
| Posted on: Monday, July 26th, 2010, 6:34:35pm |
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Ok, I changed the settings to standard TPS, car no longer stalls and throttle reaction is improved. Still some hesitency but I guess the analogue TPS will sort that.
I still have the big issue which is the loss of power when the turbo kicks in. I checked the MAP sensor and on ignition it reads 100kpa and at idle it reads 40kpa so I am assuming that it is reading correctly. I tried upping the boost fuel cut but the problem is still there. I will try and record a log and post the results. |
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| Andy |
| Posted on: Monday, July 26th, 2010, 6:39:43pm |
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| Have you fitted a knock sensor? Didn't Don have some troubles with his? |
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We now have an official Facebook group as well as a page! See here |
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| paolo |
| Posted on: Monday, July 26th, 2010, 7:14:49pm |
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Quoted from Andy, posted Monday, July 26th, 2010, 6:39:43pm at here |
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Have you fitted a knock sensor? Didn't Don have some troubles with his?
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no, but nice try N1 boy  |
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| Andy |
| Posted on: Monday, July 26th, 2010, 7:24:22pm |
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Oh well, that about sums up my knowledge of the Adaptronic  |
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| fxdlidon |
| Posted on: Monday, July 26th, 2010, 8:47:47pm |
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| Have you disconnected the analogue TPS? I remember I left it connected - it could be trying to use readings from that and getting confused. |
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| paolo |
| Posted on: Monday, July 26th, 2010, 9:20:05pm |
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Quoted from fxdlidon, posted Monday, July 26th, 2010, 8:47:47pm at here |
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Have you disconnected the analogue TPS? I remember I left it connected - it could be trying to use readings from that and getting confused.
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Yes I disconnect it before I started fiddling with the stock tps |
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| paolo |
Posted on: Monday, July 26th, 2010, 9:23:21pm
Attachment: 20100726_2007.xls - 80.00 KB (30 downloads) |
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I took out the car and did a log file, which I have attached. It's on row 22 onwards when the revs hit 5k rpm and the turbo is just about to have full effect, the engine just splutters and there is no power.
I have a suzuki sport turbo if that helps the diagnosis. Help!
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Last modified Monday, July 26th, 2010, 9:27:29pm by paolo |
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| fxdlidon |
Posted on: Tuesday, July 27th, 2010, 12:05:29am
Attachment: adaptronic_bov.jpg - 89.15 KB (865 views) |
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Try setting the BOV to off - this function doesn't work without an analogue TPS and from the logs it looks lke this is when your hitting the problem. I think the Adaptronic is seeing the 100map (1bar), checking the TPS and seeing its less than %50 and cutting the fuel thinking your on the overrun - it's the best interpretation I can make of the logs anyway
BOV setting page... |
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| grant4561 |
| Posted on: Tuesday, July 27th, 2010, 12:59:49am |
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Just a thought, Check on the Road Speed tab that the Launch Control is turned off.
I have mine set to on and a fuel cut at 5,000 RPM which I may have forgotton to turn off before I sent the ECU file. |
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| Badger |
| Posted on: Tuesday, July 27th, 2010, 5:22:42am |
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Quoted from paolo, posted Monday, July 26th, 2010, 8:55:38am at here |
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I do, but I have not been able to install it due to an annoying screw.
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LOL........  Leave the wife alone and concentrate on the car....lol, Sorry, I couldn't resist....
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Last modified Tuesday, July 27th, 2010, 5:26:22am by Badger |
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| Avar |
| Posted on: Tuesday, July 27th, 2010, 7:06:57am |
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 brilliant, always good to start the day with a giggle. |
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| paolo |
| Posted on: Tuesday, July 27th, 2010, 8:18:12am |
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turned off the BOV setting and also checked the traction control and it was not enabled, but the problem is still there on my drive to work this morning. 
Any more ideas? |
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| DickW |
| Posted on: Tuesday, July 27th, 2010, 11:24:54am |
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Quoted from paolo, posted Tuesday, July 27th, 2010, 8:18:12am at here |
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turned off the BOV setting and also checked the traction control and it was not enabled, but the problem is still there on my drive to work this morning.
Any more ideas?
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Hmmm.... I'm assuming here that unless you have or had ABS and its sensors you couldn't implement traction control anyway... |
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| paolo |
| Posted on: Tuesday, July 27th, 2010, 12:13:46pm |
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| You can, just by using the speedo sensor and revs, Grant has tried it. I think it works better if you have front wheel speed sensors also. |
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| DickW |
| Posted on: Tuesday, July 27th, 2010, 12:51:05pm |
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| I wouldn't have thought the speedo sensor and revometer were accurate enough for that. |
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| brett |
| Posted on: Tuesday, July 27th, 2010, 3:44:26pm |
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Paolo, one thing I noticed looking at the log file is that the afrs listed seem pretty rich to me especially around 3.5-5k rpm. The opening duration of the injectors seems pretty high too. It looks like the more boost there is, the richer the car runs. I assume you are running a wideband a/f sensor - is this set to the correct type? What tuning mode is the ecu currently set to? Slow converge? What are the target afrs you have set? 9 ish afr is very rich i'd be thinking 11.5-12 under boost would be a nice safe target, i'm no expert though.
Also, it doesn't seem to be logging any temp measurements - are these showing in the gauges / ecu data windows?
When you say the car just stutters - is it like its needing to clear its throat so to speak? Or is it more of deliberate cut in power? (ie none)
Do you have a cold engine power cut set and at what rpm?
If you'd like to send me your ecu file i'd be happy to have a sticky beak if it helps. |
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| paolo |
| Posted on: Tuesday, July 27th, 2010, 3:59:34pm |
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Thanks Brett, I too noticed that there are no temp readings. Should there be?
I am using an LC-1 wideband O2 sensor via the serial port on the ECU, I believe I have it set correctly in WARI.
Grant did say that this config may run rich at first, and I have it on slow converge mode
Time to check my wiring maybe! |
Last modified Tuesday, July 27th, 2010, 4:01:11pm by paolo |
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| brett |
| Posted on: Tuesday, July 27th, 2010, 4:15:10pm |
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There should be temp readings for sure. They are part of what data the ecu uses to make calculations. I'd definately check to see why the ecu isn't logging the temps before I did anything else. If you check with wari connected to the car press f2 to bring up the gauges window. Do they show up in there? If not i'd suspect a bad earth /ground assuming the sensors are still connected to the loom as in the wiring diagram they all share the same ground.
With the lc-1 - did you calibrate the sensor in free air as it says in the manual? Apparently if you calibrate while its in the exhaust the calibration can be skewed somewhat, causing poor readings. (I'm sure you did - thought i'd better ask) |
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| paolo |
| Posted on: Tuesday, July 27th, 2010, 6:20:32pm |
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| Yeah calibrated the LC-1 in free air, I followed the manual to the letter, as I am currently pretty green on all this kit, so I did not take any chances. Likewise with the wiring, I just checked and the temp sensor wire seems to be in the correct location on the loom so time for further investigation. The temp does not show on the gauge window so I think we are getting to the root of the problem here! |
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| paolo |
| Posted on: Tuesday, July 27th, 2010, 8:45:00pm |
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I cannot get a reading from the temp sensor (THW), should I be able to get reading from this sensor on the gauges window with just the ignition on?
What is the best way to test if the sensor is working? Actually I don't even know where it is on the car 
I have a volt meter, can I use that to test the sensor? |
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| fxdlidon |
| Posted on: Tuesday, July 27th, 2010, 9:15:35pm |
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| Yes you should have a reading with just the ign on - should read somewhere close to air temp. I'd guess it was working before, so check the wires first. |
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| grant4561 |
| Posted on: Wednesday, July 28th, 2010, 4:41:28am |
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The temp sensor is in the water jacket of the inlet manifold directly above the alternator.
You can meter it for resitance and in the cappo workshop manual it will tell you what it should read. |
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| paolo |
| Posted on: Wednesday, July 28th, 2010, 2:42:43pm |
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should read somewhere close to air temp
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Air temp? Oh dear I guess that I am supposed to be seeing that on the gauges window too?
So I have no readings for water temp OR air temp, no wonder I am having problems.
Now to figure out why I am not getting said readings... |
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| fxdlidon |
| Posted on: Wednesday, July 28th, 2010, 4:08:09pm |
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| Well not air temp as such, I think it's MAT in the window. Before the car is run theses should both be lose to the temperature outside. |
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| Avar |
| Posted on: Wednesday, July 28th, 2010, 8:07:26pm |
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| Don't water temp and MAT both have the same ground on the loom? If your missing both of them i'd start looking at the wiring ecu end. |
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| paolo |
| Posted on: Wednesday, July 28th, 2010, 10:32:37pm |
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| Cheers Kei, do you know which wire that earth is by any chance? |
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| brett |
| Posted on: Thursday, July 29th, 2010, 3:17:17am |
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| paolo |
| Posted on: Thursday, July 29th, 2010, 1:16:19pm |
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AHAHAHA!!!!!!
This earth was the problem!!!!! When I made the loom I neglected to connect that brown wire because I was using a 3 bar MAP sensor. I made the assumtion that as I was using the aftermarket sensor, I would not need to connect it. I did not realise that the MAT and water temp sensors needed that earth. Anyway, enough of the excuses - I can now see both the water and air temp readings in the gauges window. Good news is now the boost problem is gone and now revs all the way round.
So thank you readers and contributors, you have been a great help.
Bad news is that it now idles like a bag of spanners, and keeps stalling. In fact I have to keep feathering the throttle just to keep it running. I have had a look at the idle tab and can honestly say I did not understand any of it.
Can someone let me know how to adjust the idle? I will understand it eventually but it's all new to me and looks a lot different to a Cisco router which is what I normally configure!   |
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| Avar |
| Posted on: Thursday, July 29th, 2010, 3:40:20pm |
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First things first, is the engine warning light still coming on when its idling or rather trying to?
If so it could just be a case of trying to find the correct fuel timings, if you can keep it at a stable idle then it might get it adjusted itself. |
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| paolo |
| Posted on: Thursday, July 29th, 2010, 4:54:15pm |
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| Yes the warning light came on. |
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| Avar |
| Posted on: Thursday, July 29th, 2010, 7:48:31pm |
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I have a feeling then thats its trying to still map that partiular cell, When mine is struggling to idle happily i open wari and with the adaptive parameters set to "not update a cell marked tuned" i manually raise the fueling in the cell on the map page once with page up and let it quickly try to find the right setting and continue like this untill the idle sits good. I think mine is now idling with a setting of about 2.8 at 1000 revs 50kpa.
Hope this makes sence.
On another note, you say your AC is not hunting, is it possible to confirm the wire that feeds your relay that comes from the existing car loom, i need to know the wire colour on the original loom to make sure mines wired correctly. I've tried all manner of earth positions but the relay wont close to give the adaptronic the good switched ground. Its very frustrating. |
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| paolo |
| Posted on: Thursday, July 29th, 2010, 8:45:43pm |
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I think mine is now idling with a setting of about 2.8 at 1000 revs 50kpa
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2.8? So the fact that mine says something like 108 for the same revs and load would indicate that somethings is VERY wrong. What do the numbers measure?
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it possible to confirm the wire that feeds your relay that comes from the existing car loom
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Yes it's the EL2 wire
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| fxdlidon |
| Posted on: Thursday, July 29th, 2010, 9:10:18pm |
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| Paulo's map is showing the VE tuning not the Inj/ms that we're using Kei - we need to wait for Grants comments I feel |
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Cappuccino Owners Club › Specific Discussion Boards › Adaptronic ECU › SHE LIVES! - kind of (Moderators: )
