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Power Output and Purchase Questions (currently 292 views)
Capa
Posted on: Sunday, November 30th, 2014, 1:41:15am
Guest User
Hi all,
Complete noob here, so please be gentle! I have had a look round and tried to use the search function but I can't quite get the answers I'm looking for. Hopefully someone can help, or at least point me in the right direction!
I'm committing to the joys of a mortgage very soon, and my current fun car is going to have to go due to potential maintenance costs and lousy fuel economy. I'm moving into a city centre location where parking is going to be a pfaff and I'd really like something efficient so I can actually get out and drive the car as much as possible. Hence why I'm looking at Cappuccinos.
I am going to be taking a hit in terms of performance compared to what I drive currently and I am comfortable with this, but I would like to up the power of the standard lump as much is as reliably possible.
Essentially, what can I do without sacrificing too much in terms of drivability or fuel consumption to bring the all important horespower figure up? If someone could provide me with very rough, ballpark figures of what I'd have to spend and what gains I'd get out of it, that would be very much appreciated. Basically, what is possible without going full keen and forging the internals or putting a Hayabusa motor in?
I'm a little concerned about spare part availability and cost too, is there a source of cheap components which can be picked from easily, or is it a case of manning up, going to the main dealer and handing over whatever they charge?
Rot. I've seen a few build threads, and I'm petrified of it. I'm not adverse to a bit of spannering, but a welder isn't something that I have access to, nor any confidence in using. Are there any tell-tale signs that a car would be a complete lemon? I've seen plenty of cars with plastic bodykits which could hide all sorts of nasties.
How much should I be spending to avoid owning something that looks like it's just come off the Titanic, and is there any UK specialist or similar source of rot free, reliable cars?
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Icevid
Posted on: Sunday, November 30th, 2014, 9:33:16am
Guest User
For reliable power increase usually people get the N1 Ecu and some 295cc injectors, you might add a boost controller to get a bit more out of the turbo which would require maybe a little larger intercooler. With this setup I've read people getting around 100hp which is around a 30hp gain. This is what seems the most simple and most reliable upgrade people have done someone else might give you more advise on this though. As for fuel consumption I have no clue on how it will be affected.
As for parts, if you don't mind the wait I've used http://www.amayama.com/ from where you can get the parts directly from japan. There is also suzuki shop which is a member on the forum which will help you if you need any parts.
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Reply: 1 - 11
lord
Posted on: Sunday, November 30th, 2014, 9:50:48am
Guest User
If i were starting from scratch I'd buy an import... if I wanted a long term car.
If you wanted a car for a year or two that was probably slightly rotten and you knew it wouldn't pass the MOT then a cheap UK car...an ebay job or classic car. Search on Classic car. There was a cappuccino with 6k miles. I did have the guys email and he wanted 6k for it.
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Reply: 2 - 11
Avar
Posted on: Sunday, November 30th, 2014, 10:11:57am
Guest User
Hi
The base HP of a showroom cappo is about 66 at the wheels, the good thing about the cappo is that because of its small size and power you don't lose huge amounts of HP as the car ages, provided its been looked after. You'd be surprised at how quick the standard car actually is but there are some mild performance upgrades which can make a considerable difference, one in particular is upgrading to the N1 ecu which can get you in the high 70's IIRC. Unfortunately these are like hens teeth and command a high resale figure (somewhere near the £500 mark). If planning this route I'd suggest getting the engine back to tip top condition as any performance upgrade on a tired engine can give a huge amount of hassle. A new cam belt, belt tensioner, filters and fluids for gearbox and diff. But would also advise on new water and oil pump along with a new radiator of yours is looking a moth eaten. With some sensible mods you can get the car to a reliable hi 80hp quite good in a car that only weighs in under the 800 kilo mark. Replacement hoses are also advised as some cars are still going around with there 20 year old rubber pipes. Bare in mind that Suzuki made these cars as a cheap for the people car using lower grade materials not expecting them to be driven into there teens and certainly not anticipating peeps like us to be taking them into there tweens in a hi rust environment.
Which gets us onto your other question the rot. This is the biggest issue in the UK and one which can cause an early retirement even if kept on top of. The first signs are bubbling around the rear arches, especially the driver side. Then next would be along the sills by the jacking points. The lower front quarter panel between the front wheels and the door are a good visible check, although these are made of ally they catch rot from the section they are fitted to and on a lot of cappo's you will see the two bolts that screw into the sill edge (next to front jacking point) are rusted up and poorly fitted along with the bottom edge of these panels rough and jagged from being eaten away. Another good obvious check is the paint section under the doors, all cappo's came with a one tone paint job but a lot of repairs (often bodges) involve painting this section matt black as this can cover a multitude of repairs and instantly shows that these areas have been attended to in the cars life. Inside the engine bay is a few more places to check, the areas between the strut mounts and the wings is known the hold water that is sprayed up from underneath mainly because there's about 4 panels that all meet together and bubbly paint or a lump shows its going or has been repaired. Deep in the front recess's of the engine bay is another place which can be hard to see given the amount of wiring in the way. There's is a collection panels that the headlights sit on and go up behind the headlight that gets a lot of water ingress rot here can be a sign that the front panels are in need of some TLC.
Fuel economy wise these cars are good even by todays standard with a stock car still achieving some 45mpg if driven quietly, the N1 ecu can improve this to a certain extent as you spend less time on the loud pedal although can reduce this as soon as the driver relents to the lil red guy sitting on your shoulder whispering 'give it some'. Personally I've driven a stock car at malory park all afternoon clocking up approx. 110 miles to a tank and clocking reliable mid 60's laps this equates to mpg between 16- 18 which is pretty good going. Driving on my normal daily hourly commute with my current car which is heavily modded and running an N1 ecu I'm getting 46.6mpg average.
Parts can be expensive although the club has a huge knowledge and skill base that can bring costs down with finding comparable parts that can be made to work but some stock item are getting rare (panels being the first that come to mind) although other items like stock shocks and exhausts are equally hard to obtain now. Most Suzuki dealers haven't seen a cappo so cant offer much help and very few specialists nowadays to be found away from this club.
Final thing to add is city life, while these cars are brilliant in the city I've noticed from living in London for a few years that the city doesn't like them, with the increasing speed bumps and Chelsea tractors the cappo's are being sized out with probably the only well suited places being in the supermarket car park's where the bay sizes are constantly shrinking, however don't be surprised if you hear stories of cappo's being rear ended in such places as other drivers can overlook the small car parked between other monsters in the melee that is the hunt for the nearest spot to the shop entrance. You will find a lot of us owners deliberately park the far end and walk or park next to a trolly zone to give us at least one safe side.
Hope I haven't put you off but these cars can be a huge project with only a few really good ones about that owners hold onto, although I do know of one minter for sale but again the owner is asking a price which although for the rest of Europe seams reasonable is high for the UK.
Posted on: Sunday, November 30th, 2014, 11:29:54am
Big Member
Posts: 362 Posts Per Day: 0.21
Agree with Kei's advice large 4x4,buses e.t.c i have to think like a cyclist,when parking in a bay i park with my front bumper sticking out a few inches so drivers can see the car!!Other things ive noticed since having the car you have to have a bit of a thick skin people pointing and laughing at the car not in a bad way though(i think)but on the other hand while filling up with petrol a few times people have asked questions about the car and commented on how good the car looks.I have an N1 ECU just plug in and drive no other mods apart from #9 spark plugs takes the BHP up to about 80,but overall the car is such fun to drive i think other people will echo that!!If its your daily drive a good underseal would be a good idea.
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doodlepugg
Posted on: Sunday, November 30th, 2014, 5:14:43pm
Guest User
Well as for rot, there are probably 3 genuine rot free cappo's in the UK that I can think of. That doesn't mean to say there aren't some good ones out there quite easily salvageable, though. I paid just north of £5,000 for my one as at the time it was the best one for sale. Still didn't guarantee rot free though, as the edges of the floorpan are a bit shoddy. As for performance - standard engines are forged rods & crank. 130hp would be pretty stable from a standard (healthy) engine. There are a few cappo's about (like mine) with Suzuki sport engines which have bored out forged pistons, as well as a few other goodies as a stable tuning platform. I was aiming for about 140 rear wheel horsepower... But life done it's usual rollercoaster thing and I still haven't got there yet! Mine is always up for sale to the right buyer, and I currently have the interior stripped so you can have a proper poke around so you can really see what a cappo is like under the carpet. I'm in Somerset, South West, if you'd like a drive and chat by all means pop over!
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Reply: 5 - 11
Capa
Posted on: Sunday, November 30th, 2014, 5:17:31pm
Guest User
Majestic chaps, thanks for the responses.
Buying an import is something that I have considered, but the consts involved are strong. If it was simply a case of FOB price + shipping, then I'd be golden, however it's import tax, VAT, SVAing etc that just makes it a killer. Coupled with the fact that you don't *actually* know condition the car is truly in.
6k is far above what I am looking to spend. Preferrably, I'd like to spend about half that for a sorted -as close to rot free as possible- car. Is that something that's reasonable, or am I barking up the wrong tree entirely here?
What you're saying there icevid sounds good. 100hp at the wheels I would imagine equates to ~120bhp, which scaling up further and assuming the weight of the cars is 725kg as claimed should be good for ~160bhp/tonne, or about the same amount as a Lotus Elise. That is, essentially what I'm aiming for.
Kei. I thoroughly agree about refurbishing the auxiliary components and giving everything a good service before playing with getting more power out of it. Changing the fluids wouldn't be an issue, but changing out oil and water pump - whilst being a good idea - is perhaps where problems may begin - I've had a quick look around the net for these items and come up short. I don't suppose anyone knows what the rough cost of these items would be? Silicone hoses look to be something that you could either throw together from pipes of different diameters, or order a kit off Yahoo Japan. Speaking of which, does the club have anyone they recommend in terms of ordering parts from Yahoo Japan or other JDM sources? I'd much prefer to go on reputation rather that whatever google turns up.
Seems like there are plenty of places where water can hide, which is... Worrying. Looks like that is going to be the deal breaker if there is one. It's a shame that there don't seem to be too many for sale around the local area [Southampton], at least then I could go and look over [and drive] a few to get an idea of what I'm getting into.
Fuel consumption sounds lovely. I'm averaging 25 at the minute, so close on doubling that is one of my primary aims here. Kei, what kind of mods are you running/power at the moment? I'd be intrigued at what you are running and still averaging 45. Sounds fantastic. I'll give a little more clarity on where I'm moving to. It's not London or anything nearly as grandiose, more just an area whereby one has to pull over a lot to let oncoming traffic through. My current car is quite wide and pretty cumbersome when working with first gear. I don't foresee any issues with speedbumps or large 4x4s, the advice is appreciated though - I'm sure I'll still encounter those problems in Tesco's carpark, but generally speaking I'm pretty precious about parking five miles from the store entrance!
Last modified Sunday, November 30th, 2014, 5:18:00pm by Capa
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Icevid
Posted on: Sunday, November 30th, 2014, 5:41:25pm
Guest User
Jesse is the man to talk to when getting parts from Japan, There is a dedicated section on the forum but would be best to just contact him by the email found on his website http://jessestreeter.com/
Interesting. AutoLink are local and I've been up there before. I remember speaking with them on a few things MX-5 related.
Edit: That Rexbo place is really helpful to price up gear - thanks for the link!
Last modified Sunday, November 30th, 2014, 6:10:12pm by Capa
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doodlepugg
Posted on: Tuesday, December 2nd, 2014, 2:09:41pm
Guest User
Had stuff from autolink for both mx5 and cappo stuff. They may even have a drivable cappo (and some other Kei cars) available for a spin. Current market, mine only went up to £2k on ebay bidding (with £5k of engine, gearbox, 3 puck clutch, ally flywheel etc.) which has only done 5k miles. I did get offered £3500 last year though, but no one wants them these days. I have no doubt with the top gear and fifth gear appearances in 2015 they will boom again for a little while, though. So may even be an investment if you buy a cheapie and restore it over winter... (I know of one such car, which is need of a lot of TLC)
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doodlepugg
Posted on: Tuesday, December 2nd, 2014, 2:11:03pm
Guest User
Oh, and low down torque of a cappo and lightweight makes it brilliant fun in narrow lanes
Posted on: Wednesday, December 3rd, 2014, 1:37:48am
Big Member
Posts: 395 Posts Per Day: 0.28
Spend as long as possible looking underneath all the cars you go to view, (it's more important than looking at the top of the car!). Look at a few and you'll see the difference between good and bad ones. You might get lucky and find one that's been garaged most of its life for about the £3k mark, but be prepared to spend a while looking and be prepared to travel!
Cheap easy mods : 1 bar of boost feels like a 20% gain easily - electronic boost controller £200 Delete about 20Kg - air con, spare wheel/jack (replace with can of tyre inflater) N1 is great and helps fuel eco too, but they are £500 Chassis mods are good for the car and improve its already impressive cornering. Tunnel brace, strut braces, etc.
Expensive mods : Monster Sport F111 kit or F100 kit (111bhp and 100 bhp) - about £1500 - £2000 ...or you could do your own homebrew turbo kit for less than £1000
Service parts like brake discs/pads oil filters, etc, are all very cheap and easily available. Less common parts can be expensive from Suzuki, but there are usually a few cars being broken in the for sale section on here so you can get hold of secondhand bits pretty cheaply.
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Power Output and Purchase Questions (currently 292 views)
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