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| Andy |
| Posted on: Tuesday, February 13th, 2007, 9:25:51pm |
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Finally started a project today that I've been meaning to do for a while.
Can you guess what it is yet?
JBL GTO327 2 Ohm speakers wired in series to produce 4 Ohm left and right stereo speakers in each headrest
196 strands OFC speaker wire
Gold plated speaker terminals
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| jaik |
| Posted on: Wednesday, February 14th, 2007, 12:06:10am |
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| Should be good! Will you be wiring them up so they're in stereo for each person? |
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Reply: 1 - 84 |
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| Andy |
| Posted on: Wednesday, February 14th, 2007, 12:07:57am |
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2 Ohm speakers wired in series to produce 4 Ohm left and right stereo speakers in each headrest
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Yes indeedy!  |
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Reply: 2 - 84 |
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| jaik |
| Posted on: Wednesday, February 14th, 2007, 2:26:15pm |
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Reckon they would damage your head should you (God forbid) ever be in a situation where the headrests are doing their job of stopping your head being flung back too far? If so, the easiest way to solve the problem is always wear a racing helmet  |
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Reply: 3 - 84 |
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| Andy |
| Posted on: Wednesday, February 14th, 2007, 2:29:45pm |
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| My head is nowhere near where they are mounted You would have to be very short in the body to have your head contacting the headrest where they are. They are also mounted inside the foam and will have an extra piece of sticky back foam covering the entire front face (excluding a cut out for the speaker of course!) of the headrest. |
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Reply: 4 - 84 |
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| capgun |
| Posted on: Wednesday, February 14th, 2007, 6:05:10pm |
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They look good!  |
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Reply: 5 - 84 |
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| Andy |
| Posted on: Wednesday, February 14th, 2007, 6:09:42pm |
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Cheers capgun
The only tell tale sign they are there will be the holes in the headrest cover - oh and the sound of course lol |
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Reply: 6 - 84 |
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| scubababe |
| Posted on: Wednesday, February 14th, 2007, 9:10:14pm |
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Nice job Andy. So what are you going to do for the rest of the week  |
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Reply: 7 - 84 |
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| Andy |
| Posted on: Wednesday, February 14th, 2007, 9:12:39pm |
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| Bit more of this lol |
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Last modified Friday, February 16th, 2007, 3:02:49pm by Andy |
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Reply: 8 - 84 |
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| capgun |
| Posted on: Thursday, February 15th, 2007, 2:46:44am |
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You could write your name in the headrests with the hole punch, lol.
Will the holes be like the capposport ones or a custom design?
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Reply: 9 - 84 |
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| Andy |
| Posted on: Thursday, February 15th, 2007, 10:01:49am |
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lol
I think it will be a standard pattern. |
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Reply: 10 - 84 |
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| capgun |
| Posted on: Thursday, February 15th, 2007, 10:09:27am |
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| Sounds good, at least you can hide the wires pretty easily too, they won't be seen with the small amount of space behind the seats... |
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Reply: 11 - 84 |
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| Andy |
| Posted on: Thursday, February 15th, 2007, 10:15:17am |
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| I intend running them down through the seat itself |
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Reply: 12 - 84 |
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| capgun |
| Posted on: Thursday, February 15th, 2007, 10:20:06am |
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Even better Next step is to use your 'other' headrest set and put an 8" sub in each of them, lol!
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Reply: 13 - 84 |
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| Andy |
| Posted on: Sunday, April 8th, 2007, 7:58:59pm |
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Finally finished the install off and I have to say the speakers sound fantastic! At the moment it is a stealth install as I haven't punched any holes in the headrest covers yet. The sound is like I say fantastic still and not at all muffled. I'm tempted not to as it would be quite amusing watching people trying to figure out where the music is coming from!
Can any audiophiles tell me how much of a difference I could expect by putting holes in the covers? |
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Reply: 14 - 84 |
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| Barry |
| Posted on: Sunday, April 8th, 2007, 8:30:02pm |
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Yes: it will create small circular gaps in the material.
Hope this helps
Have you got any other similar speakers, and any similar material? At least then you could rig up a substitute setup, try it with and without holes: at least then you don't risk the original material.
The other thing: if you punch holes in the material, is it black consistantly all of the way through: be a bit of a shame if the fabric showed white in the holes, for example. |
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Reply: 15 - 84 |
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| Andy |
| Posted on: Sunday, April 8th, 2007, 8:33:36pm |
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| The fabric is white on the inside but a quick run round with a black felt tip pen would sort that. I could take the cover of one headrest and see how much of a difference that actually makes and judge from that whether it's worth it. |
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Reply: 16 - 84 |
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| Barry |
| Posted on: Sunday, April 8th, 2007, 8:41:03pm |
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| That's true: it would have to sound completely different to warrant the holes I suppose, as even if you peppered the material, you probably could open up much more than 30% of the material? |
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Reply: 17 - 84 |
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| crisp |
| Posted on: Monday, April 9th, 2007, 8:28:45am |
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Use some speaker mesh fabric (almost always comes in black as I found out when trying to get silver to make my KEFs match the rest of the room *cough*) on the inside to hide the foam being seen through holes.
I think places like Maplins do it on the roll cheap enough - very cheap as you won't actually need much.
Be careful what you use to bond the mesh to the inside of the covers.
Rubber glue might get a little sticky when hot, and conversely Superglue might get rather brittle when either too hot (dries out) or too cold.
Maybe better to fit the mesh over the whole headrest first like a stocking, then put the original cover over afterwards?
It's usually quite stretchy so you should be able to make it a good snug fit.
Adding the holes should make the sound clearer, especially at the high end of the spectrum.
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Reply: 18 - 84 |
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| Andy |
| Posted on: Monday, April 9th, 2007, 8:37:50am |
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| The foam of the headrest is actually already covered in a sheet of black foam but I forgot to take a picture of that bit! I'd already decided that if I was going to put holes in the headrest cover I would but some black mesh behind. Decisions, decisions. |
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Reply: 19 - 84 |
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| crisp |
| Posted on: Monday, April 9th, 2007, 8:52:46am |
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If there's a thin black foam between the speakers and the outer cover this should should be fine, but a speaker mesh might reduce wear and tear on this thin black foam.
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Reply: 20 - 84 |
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| Andy |
| Posted on: Monday, April 9th, 2007, 9:02:20am |
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| The stick on black foam isn't all that thin and has a hole where the speakers are. If I do decide to punch holes in the cover the mesh will still be needed to hide the speakers. |
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Reply: 21 - 84 |
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| capgun |
| Posted on: Monday, April 9th, 2007, 9:26:56am |
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| The speaker cloth will tone down some of the high frequencies that the tweeters produce but sometimes that is an advantage because some tweeters can be harsh to begin with... That's one of the things people do to tweets if they are in factory locations (corners of the dash - upper footwells etc). I think do what Barry said and try the speakers with a scrap of vinyl with the holes punched too so you can tell the difference. The midrange and high frequencies would be affected without any holes but bass shouldn't be affected much |
Last modified Monday, April 9th, 2007, 9:27:40am by capgun |
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Reply: 22 - 84 |
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| Olyfan |
| Posted on: Monday, April 9th, 2007, 9:57:11am |
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| do you actually get a true stereo image with the speakers so close together??? |
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Reply: 23 - 84 |
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| capgun |
| Posted on: Monday, April 9th, 2007, 10:27:09am |
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| ^ what about earphones, lol! |
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Reply: 24 - 84 |
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| Andy |
| Posted on: Monday, April 9th, 2007, 10:30:56am |
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“ |
Quoted from Olyfan, posted Monday, April 9th, 2007, 9:57:11am at here |
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do you actually get a true stereo image with the speakers so close together???
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Well if you don't it does a very good impression of it. |
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Reply: 25 - 84 |
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| Kat_Expresso |
| Posted on: Monday, April 16th, 2007, 6:03:17pm |
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Hey now thats a clever idea!!!
i love this site... you guys give me so many excellent ideas!!!
its just finding things ickle enough..
Andy what speaker did you use.. id imagin they'd have the be pretty shallow...
your brave choppin up your leather seats!!!! REALLY brave lol I wouldnt!! Is is not unconfy on the back of your head?? |
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Reply: 26 - 84 |
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| Andy |
| Posted on: Monday, April 16th, 2007, 6:10:48pm |
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They are JBL GTO327 2 Ohm speakers wired in series to produce 4 Ohm. They are listed as having a mounting depth of 37mm on the box but that doesn't include the plastic rim which is also under the foam. They aren't uncomfy on the back of the head at all. Couple of reasons for that. My head doesn't contact the headrest during driving and even if it did it would contact the top part of it and not the bottom part where the speakers actually are.
As for being brave chopping up the headrests - it's always slightly less disconcerting when you have another set!
I've also decided that I will have to put the holes in the covers. The sound is great when the roof is on but doesn't sound quite right when the roof is off. Hopefully the holes will help this. Could be that I need to upgrade the front speakers again though. |
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Reply: 27 - 84 |
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| Kat_Expresso |
| Posted on: Monday, April 16th, 2007, 6:18:24pm |
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| haha i dont have another set if i muff mine up!!!! |
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Reply: 28 - 84 |
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| capgun |
| Posted on: Monday, April 16th, 2007, 6:22:38pm |
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| Doors or kick panels are the place for 'optimum' sound in most cars |
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Reply: 29 - 84 |
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| Andy |
| Posted on: Monday, April 16th, 2007, 6:24:16pm |
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| It wasn't an easy job putting two speakers into the one headrest and I can see why people have only fitted one per headrest before lol. Getting the speakers into the headrests wasn't too bad but wiring it all up caused me a few headaches trying to remember which wire was which and where it was meant to be going! If you did make a mistake all you would need to do is glue the sponge back in. Nobody would ever know |
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Reply: 30 - 84 |
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| Kat_Expresso |
| Posted on: Monday, April 16th, 2007, 6:26:31pm |
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| hehe defo need to dort my sound system out.. though mine was clever till i started lookin at what other have done!!! |
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Reply: 31 - 84 |
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| Andy |
| Posted on: Monday, April 16th, 2007, 6:29:34pm |
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“ |
Quoted from capgun, posted Monday, April 16th, 2007, 6:22:38pm at here |
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Doors or kick panels are the place for 'optimum' sound in most cars
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Not sure about that. Kick panel is too low isn't it and wouldn't they ideally need to be high up on the door which wouldn't be a great place for pods in the Capp? |
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Reply: 32 - 84 |
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| capgun |
| Posted on: Monday, April 16th, 2007, 6:40:58pm |
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No, not always. If you go to a car audio show - or look on the net you'll see that 90percent or more of cars have them in those positions
It gets really technical with frequencies, distance to ear, passive/active systems, crossover points and the rest of it. I have my focals in the kick panels (with sound deadening behind) & can turn it up to as loud as I can bear without a hint of distortion. The sound sounds like it's coming directly in front of me - I have my tweeters on top of the dash too though. Sub is behind the front seats because most sub frequencies are non-directional (can't really pick where the sound originates). |
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Reply: 33 - 84 |
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| Andy |
| Posted on: Monday, April 16th, 2007, 6:44:55pm |
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Excellent!
I need to do some work on my fronts as they rattle the wings at the mo. I will sound deaden behind them first and if they still aren't doing it for me I will replace them. Which focals have you got in there? Any clearance problems? |
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Reply: 34 - 84 |
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| capgun |
| Posted on: Monday, April 16th, 2007, 6:54:01pm |
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I havbe the 165's (polyglass). I had to make some mdf spacers (actually I used plywood!) to space them out for magnet clearance. It's definately worth spending the money on 'dynamat extreme' I did two layers of it (it's about 2mm thick and sticks on like tape). The difference is HUGE!
It's a bit of a gamble buying the cheap sound deadening - adhesion, effectiveness etc. Dynamatt always seems to be fine no-matter who you talk to! lol
If you mount the tweeters in the factory locations in the dash they sound great I have the switch on the crossovers set to minus one to tone them down a touch. I can't really fault them at all - crystal clear with the nakamichi deck I'm using now and I don't have to turn the bass down on every second track like I used to to stop the panels vibrating or humming intermittantly!  |
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Reply: 35 - 84 |
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| crisp |
| Posted on: Monday, April 16th, 2007, 8:26:21pm |
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The higher the frequency of the sound, the greater the directional emphasis and so the better the stereo imagery.
Bass bins practically have no direction (but some people argue otherwise ), but HFs are highly directional.
Most speakers lye somewhere inbetween, or more to the point actually produce sound inbetween these extremes.
The tweeters on the dash will give most direction : this is what you hear "The sound sounds like it's coming directly in front of me", Capgun. It's not the ones in the door well you're hearing directionally so much as the tweeters in the dash.
My tweeters have an excellant stereo imagery, far better than any stock stereo system I've had before.
I also have my treble turned down to reduce their harshness a little as well, but this is to be expected if like most car tweeters they are piezos rather than the proper HiFi tweeters I'm used to.
Unfortunately the stock stereo itself ain't so hot.
Most speakers are in the footwells or bottoms of the doors so they're out the way.
That's it.
They're NOT there for sonic clarity, it's convenience, oh that and there's few other places to stuff em.
Manufacturers therefore have altered their designs to maxmise their products to give better results from this estranged positioning compared to HiFi speaker setups which are distinctly directional in orientation.
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Reply: 36 - 84 |
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| capgun |
| Posted on: Tuesday, April 17th, 2007, 3:27:46am |
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| You don't think that sometimes speakers need a certain volume of air behind them - hence mounting them in the doors? I admit there really isn't that many other places to put midranges or woofers though - especially if they are 3way splits. I knew why I heard the sound coming in front of me, lol! |
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Reply: 37 - 84 |
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| crisp |
| Posted on: Tuesday, April 17th, 2007, 10:06:34pm |
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“ |
Quoted from capgun, posted Tuesday, April 17th, 2007, 3:27:46am at here |
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You don't think that sometimes speakers need a certain volume of air behind them
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You're quite right they do, well certainly the mid and bass range drivers need this.
Bass-reflex and bass-porting take advantage of this by extending their area, or really it's actually a trick about reducing internal pressure at higher volumes and so allowing a truer bass-line at higher volumes, otherwise the internal pressure will cause the driver to slow down and reduce its' travell.
Fluting of the aperture can also affect the sound quality.
Density and other properties of the case also have a noticable effect.
There are books on the subject, but I've never read much of them as I tend to sort of erhm fall asleep before it get s to the interesting bits.
Some speakers (like from a guy on eBay who specialises in Wharfedales that I've used before) come with techy specs to help you built a suitably sized enclosure.
As an experiment I bought some small 4.5"'s off him to replace some Akai's and the sound difference was amazing, but they do sound better if housed in denser boxes rather than the plasy cases they're in now (as I've tried them) - might be an idea for me to open them up again and add a little of this dynomatt stuff you lot are on about (btw I noticed Jay left plenty lining my car ). These are now in the garden (that's why they're in plastic cases - in case I forget to bring them in of an evening, lol) by what will be the patio-sort-of, though I was thinking of also getting some of his 4Ohm/6.5"'s off him as well just to help with that big double bass line when I'm mellowing to some Jazz during the summer.
Also, have you noticed how some speakers sound different in an 'enclosed' car than with the windows open or roof off?
With an enclosed system there's far more chance of standing waves and high air compression and distortion - some take advantage of this, to a point.
With an open system it's lighter as there's less reflection and less containment of the bass, which in itself could lead to a distorted sound -strange but true, as we need reflections to hear properly.
Here's one for you .
Anyone here seen the old (70's?) training films I've seen re:sub-bass in cars?
Basically sub-bass harmonics (in an enclosed system) <20Hz can induce sleep at the wheel, btw, which is one reason why most car bass units are designed not to go below 20Hz, and certainly not below 15/10Hz, which is more where the issues lie.
Most car manufacturer systems will tail-off well before they get close 20Hz, usually maybe starting 80>50Hz even of they claim to get that low, or lower there's little left at <30Hz frequencies.
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Last modified Tuesday, April 17th, 2007, 10:15:15pm by crisp |
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Reply: 38 - 84 |
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| capgun |
| Posted on: Wednesday, April 18th, 2007, 5:59:16am |
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Yeah I've heard about the bass-sleep thing before, I find too much heat in the car tends to make me sleepy too (had to have the window down a bit to stay awake on a long 10hr drive a few weeks ago!). I tend to be very cautious of ebay when looking at speakers, there's (not in your case) a lot of fake/imitation stuff out there for dynaudio, focal and a few other high end brands that gets sold cheaply and people buy it and come online and say 'I don't know why ppl go on about *brand*, they are crap' and then everyone asks where they bought them from and tell him/her why! I haven't seen wharfedales for car audio yet but that might be nice if they are released
Soon as I sort out whatever is wrong with my capp's engine I can keep toying with my audio! I like your compartment idea for the back - I have my carpeted fiberglass sub enclosure there otherwise I could make one |
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Reply: 39 - 84 |
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